One thing I found fascinating was in the last few pages of chapter 8 when he takes about the Ahmadinejad "brand of Shiite eschatology." He quotes this European columnist commenting on Ahmad... seeing the Islamic Messiah, the twelfth Imam. Ahma... claims that he is one of several men who have been chosen by this Imam for "a single task: provoking a 'clash of civilizations' in which the Muslim world...takes on the 'infidel' West...and defeats it." So essentially, this type of Shiite belief is that they are not only supposed to wait for the return of the Twelfth Imam, but they must hasten it.
Now, work with me on this for just a second. Let's believe that Ahma... is not just lying but that he is really talking to somebody, who claims to be his twelfth Imam. I know this sounds off the wall, but wouldn't it be interesting if he really was talking to "somebody" and that somebody was telling him to start wars and kill people for good. To me, that would definitely be something that Satan or one of his angels would say. Considering that Satan can take the form of a live person if he wanted, who is to say that Satan himself is not talking with Ahma... and essentially tricking him to believe that he is doing what is right by killing and starting wars. This is exactly what Satan does. He uses parts of truth to trick and bring to hell God's children. Satan's plan in the pre-mortal existence was to force people to do what was right and thereby save all mankind. This strangely reverberates through what Ahma wants when he says that they must kill and eliminate the "infidel West." Ahma... and other Shiites who follow this belief is trying to force people (The West) to do what is right. Very Satanic if I do say so myself.
Anyways, there is a lot more that I found interesting, but I just wanted to bounce that "what if" scenario of you guys.
5 comments:
While I'm not going to speculate on whether Mahmoud has a "pocket-Satan", I think there is a real danger of needless violence when we encourage the "third lens" to influence political decisions. On any side of this issue, whether we're talking about Iran having a supposed 12th Imam (authentic,counterfeit, or extra-human)encouraging aggression in anticipation of scriptural prophesy or whether the Bush administration looks through Rosenberg's "third lens" to make "more informed" decisions on foreign policy, I think its dangerous. There is hardly anything more cryptic than the Bible or the Qu'ran, so to use them as a primary (or secondary) framework for analysis of world situations seems to me like using a chainsaw for neurosurgery. Prophesies are broad in too many ways for them to be helpful. Their terms are vague, ambiguous, higly flexible, and were subject to multiple translations. Their dates are unclear, usually only referencing a broad era ("in the last days"), and many if not all are highly symbolic (beasts, horsemen, multiple heads, seven swords, etc). The last thing we need is polical leaders who think the Bible is calling them to start/prepare for the end of days, or leaders who cut off peace talks because they think the Bible tells them that negotiations with nations are fruitless because they believe the great clash of nations is coming.
I agree with both of you, you can pretty much interpret the bible to mean whatever you want if you read enough of it. It's a book almost 2000 pages long that has been eroniously translated time and time again. In all honesty this book helped me learn a little more but overall I did not like it at all and I think I learned more from Bens one post than from the entire book.
I'm not really trying to discredit or downplay the importance or credibility of the Bible. I'm merely pointing out that it is a very imprecise tool if you are trying to use it for anything but personal guidance, especially if we are talking about, as I was, specifically about prophesy and modern world events. Cam might remeber this, it's like how old Big Mac used harp on us about 'significant figures' because it makes no sense to put down 1.34556 because that's what your calculator told you when your measuring device is only capable of being acurate to 1.3. Or the ridiculousness of measuring a line-judge's rough estimate of forward progress to exactly 10 yards. Granted in football that practice is out of necessity but it still makes no sense. The Bible's terms are rough, sometimes stylized translations of translations of words that had a different meaning in each different time and context in which it was translated. You can't put too much weight on the exact meaning of its individual words. Bible study should be limited to trying to see patterns, principles, concepts, themes. It's too imprecise for the way in which many people use it.
Ben, I wish I could write half as well as you. I think the things you say, but they don't come out half as funny or witty with all of the allusions. Wow, "like using a chainsaw for neurosurgery," I love it. I totally agree. It would be ridiculous to use Biblical prophesy to make any kind of informed decision about world politics. I find Biblical prophesies and this book interesting to ponder and personally prepare for, but they should in no way be used to preemptively attack other nations.
I think Hatch's idea is intriguing. I could see something like that being the case. It may not even be an exact embodiment of Satan, simply a false prophet type.
I will reiterate a previous point: Ben is smart. I love his commentary because he such a ridiculous genius and explains himself so well. I'm developing a man crush (or I guess renewing since I started crushing after seeing his senior baseball picture/ junk slideshow).
I agree with the line of thinking that no one should make major world changing decisions based on trying to make scripture come to pass. I apologize for the casualness of this next remark, but God is a big boy. He can make his own prophecies come to pass. We don't need George Bush or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad trying to get it done for the big man. The things of God naturally take care of themselves. If anything, I wish world leaders would do all in their power to bring peace and open doors for religious freedom so that God can pull the ultimate Punk'd and say, "All that stuff about a big war ending the world was just a joke, good for you for figuring out how to live the teachings of Jesus Christ." That probably won't happen.
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